Washington Post
January 28, 2007
Pg. B1

A Conversation With Adel Abdul Mahdi January 2007

By Lally Weymouth

As the Bush administration moved ahead last week with plans to send 21,500 additional troops to Iraq, Washington Post-Newsweek's Lally Weymouth sat down with Iraq's Shiite vice president, Adel Abdul Mahdi, at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. They discussed the "surge" and the prospects for restoring order in Baghdad and beyond.

Many in the United States wonder if the situation in Iraq can be brought under control. Your own prime minister was not supportive in the past of President Bush's sending more troops.

What do you think of the president's plan to send additional troops? What are the chances this will work and what will your government do to help?

We both think, Americans and Iraqis, that Baghdad is a key issue. We have to succeed on that.

But will Bush's "surge" make a difference?

As Iraqis, we think we need more troops in Baghdad. It's up to the multinational forces to decide whether they need more troops.

You talk about multinational forces. But the U.S. administration is sending additional American troops. No one else is volunteering for the job. Are you for that or against it?

I am saying we need more troops in Iraq. Multinational forces are part [of that].

But you have to be for or against the United States sending an additional 20,000 men.

I am not a military man. I can't say if they need to deploy more troops in Baghdad.

You're saying if "they" want to. You mean if the United States wants to send more? That sounds like you don't really care.

I care, but it's a technical question. It's a military question.

But it's not a military question. Americans are going to die. Is it worth the sacrifice?

I can [only] measure things seeing them as Iraqis [see them].

[The Americans] are there to succeed, not because they wish to be there. They came with plans, agendas and policies. If they want to succeed, we need more troops.

What are the chances of success with additional troops?

We are optimistic about succeeding. To give you some of the features of the new plan: Baghdad will be isolated and the entrances and exits will be controlled. There will be only 28 checkpoints. Baghdad will be encircled either by barriers or the river. Iraqis now will take the lead while Americans will support us.

Doesn't success depend on your government standing up to the Shiite militias that support it?

We are not facing only militias. We are also facing al-Qaeda and insurgents.

Do you believe the government is capable of stopping the Shiite atrocities?

I think they can do the job if Prime Minister [Nouri al-]Maliki takes the practical measures he is announcing.

It's rumored that you're the favorite of the U.S. government [to replace Maliki].

I think al-Maliki can still do it and he should have his chance.

[Shiite cleric Moqtada] al-Sadr, of course, supports the Iraqi government. What happens if U.S. forces go after him?

We are going to impose laws. If you are going to break the law, this will not be acceptable.

If the United States doesn't have the right to use our military the way we want to and we're operating under the sovereignty of your government, what good are additional U.S. troops?

This is one of the good understandings between us and the Americans. We are very fair on the security issue whether it concerns militias or insurgents. But we are very open in the political process. We want to bring more Shiites on board, more Sunnis on board. I have been asked to be responsible for the political issues within this security plan.

Do you think restoring security in Iraq is doable?

I was in the United States in 2003 and 2004. People were so optimistic at that time, whether Iraqis or Americans. We couldn't tell them that there was a mess in Iraq. We were telling them to be more practical.

Now people are so pessimistic and you can't tell them that this country has a chance.

All Americans see on TV screens are Sunnis slaughtering Shiites and ethnic cleansing in the streets.

Unfortunately this is true. But this is only one part of the picture. Only 12 months ago, we had elections and 12 million people voted, Sunnis and Shiites.

What can you show in the next couple of months that will inspire confidence?

If we can succeed in Baghdad, then we can give hope, not only to Americans but also to Iraqis. If we can improve services in Baghdad, then journalists will see that, and we'll have a new image.

Do you believe you can really work with the Sunnis?

Of course, yes. Now in the parliament, you can see Sunnis and Shiites. You never saw that before in a country like Iraq.

But there is ethnic cleansing going on in Baghdad.

Absolutely.

How long do you think it would take to restore order in Baghdad?

It depends on many factors. I'm not a magician. I think we need time. Violence will continue in Iraq.

For how long?

I can't tell, to be honest with you. It depends on many things. What we are saying is that to feel successful in Iraq we have to see some shift in the behavior of people. People have to start to depend for their safety on governmental forces, not on militias or other groups.

Is it the government's policy that it will help the people who have been cleansed from their neighborhoods to return to those neighborhoods?

Yes, of course. And this time, when clearing a neighborhood of any kind of violence, then there will be a [police or military] unit stationed there to help people return and to maintain the security situation.

You have a law in Iraq that no one will carry a weapon?

That's right.

Are you going to use that law to have door-to-door searches to disarm the militias?

Of course, we are doing that and there are some achievements.

[Former national security adviser] Brent Scowcroft, who originally opposed the war, said recently that the United States cannot leave, but we cannot remain in the middle of a civil war. What role do you think America should play?

First, I don't think we are in a civil war. We are in a war on civilians. That's what [Abu Musab] al-Zarqawi was trying to do, that's what the insurgents are trying to do. Otherwise, what is the meaning of a car bomb in a university or a market? You are against a society, against civilians. Or, when Sunni militias attack, some Shiite militias attack [in retaliation]. They are not attacking as one [army] against the other, but are attacking civilians from the other community. That's why I say that we are in a war against civilians, not a civil war.

Secondly, the government is still powerful, still feared by the population. Whenever it issues a curfew, it is respected all over Iraq. No country in a civil war respects the decision of a government. We have to go and decrease the sectarian violence, we have to go and protect people from car bombs and from insurgent acts that target civilians and institutions.

Do you believe that President Bush will stay in Iraq or that U.S. troops will leave?

We have to gain the confidence of the American people and the administration.

Do you worry that the United States will withdraw?

Of course we worry. We will be worried whether you stay or leave.

What do you prefer?

We are not going to decide for America. They will decide for themselves. Others bear the responsibility of where we are. We were not consulted about the war decision, we were not consulted about the invasion of Kuwait, we were not consulted about the war between Iran and Iraq, but we have to bear the consequences of all this.

I think America has only two alternatives: to stay or to leave. If they stay, they should stay in a helpful way. I don't think they will take orders from us but we have always advocated the idea of demarcation between our authorities and those of the United States.